Updated Perforce scripts: show-non-p4

It was recently brought to my attention that the links to my Perforce scripts at www.fysh.org/~mac/perforce/ weren't working. These should now be fixed. As part of fixing them I noticed that some of the scripts were a little old and a slightly newer and (IMO) useful script wasn't linked at all.

Over two years ago I complained that it is hard to find files that need adding. Not long after I posted that I wrote a simple script called show-non-p4 to solve this. The script walks the directory tree looking for files that aren't in Perforce and don't match the patterns specified in per-directory .p4ignore files. The script also has a handful of global patterns that it always ignores but these are deliberately conservative.

I've found that when using sufficiently new versions of the P4API I need to lose the call to p4.tagged that occurs in the Ruby scripts. The versions available on that page still contain the line as of this writing though.

Why I Like Perforce

After lots of articles explaining why I hate Perforce I thought it only fair to write a few explaining some of the things I like about it. I'm sure that other version control systems do a better job than Perforce does with some of these things but in my opinion Perforce does them better than CVS and current stable versions of Subversion at least.

Merge tracking

Perforce keeps track of what previous changes have been merged (or integrated) into a working tree and commits this information along with the files when the files are submitted. This means that it is often trivial to merge changes in from a branch, do a quick build to check that everything is fine and then check them in.

Change lists

Although it doesn't excuse the submit command not taking multiple filename arguments I think that I mostly like the idea of being able to group my changed files into change lists. The change list can be created and the diff checked over before finally checking it in. There's a certain risk of failing to check important files in if they also happen to be in a different long-lived changelist with this tactic though. It would be ideal if somehow change lists could be at less than file granularity but I'm not sure how this could be implemented without offering a list of patch hunks.

Perforce Proxy

P4P is essential when working remotely with a large depot. It intelligently caches file revisions that pass through it so that future requests for those files can just be retrieved from the cache greatly increasing performance and reducing network traffic. It's not perfect in that if you submit a file through the proxy it doesn't appear to cache the contents immediately thus forcing a further download of the time. Nevertheless if you have many clients or multiple users in the same location then a proxy is worth the tiny amount of effort it takes to set it up.

Update 2008/11/17: Subversion 1.5 now supports (to some degree) all of these features.

Why I Hate Perforce: 4. It's difficult to defer existing work

This is part of a series of articles explaining why I hate Perforce. Please see "Why I Hate Perforce: The Background" first.

The real world being the way it is work is often started or even mostly completed and then something more important comes along which means that work must be deferred, possibly indefinitely. It is important, if only for programmer self esteem, to archive that work safely before continuing. This needs to be done with the minimal of effort and risk because it generally happens only when something urgent needs to be done.

There are a number of ways of doing this.

1. If the work had been done on a task branch then any pending changes can just be checked in and the branch kept around but not merged for as long as necessary.

Unfortunately task branches have overhead and aren't always used. Creating a task branch retrospectively would seem like a sensible tactic but is hard work with Perforce because there's no equivalent to cvs up -r or svn switch to switch to a branch whilst preserving changes in the working copy. I've tried just updating the client spec to point to the new branch hoping that it would offer to merge the changes but Perforce just complains that it cannot clobber the files since they are opened for editing.

2. Keep the working copy (or client in Perforce terminology) around forever. The downside to this is that a large amount of disk space could be taken up and any finger macros may need to be re-learnt. It is also hard for someone else to continue the work because the Perforce client will be owned by the original author.

3. Archiving the entire working copy as a unit (e.g. using tar(1) or zip(1)) then revert the files in the working copy so that work can continue. This doesn't work well with Perforce because the working copy state is stored on the server. In order to do anything meaningful with the archive you'd need to revert your working copy back to the current revision at the time the working copy was created. If this isn't done there's a risk of confusion as to where changes were made. Other systems that keep sufficient state in the working copy (such as CVS and Subversion) don't suffer from this problem. In fact the working copy can be moved to a different location (or even a different machine) and work can continue there.

4. Produce a patch based on the current state of the depot that can be applied later. This would be a perfectly good solution if it weren't such a pain to generate sensible patch files with Perforce. Having tried hard to make p4 diff generate something acceptable to patch(1) I ended up writing a Ruby script to do it. This script is available from my Perforce Scripts page.

When I had to do this recently I ended up taking option 4. It did seem to work but it was far more effort than I expected. Next time it should be easier because I've already got the script!

Now read about Why I Like Perforce.

Edit 2010/12/01: Since this article was written Perforce 2009.2 has introduced shelving. This is certainly useful but doesn't solve many of the problems raised here. In particular changes can only be unshelved back to the same location in the depot (albeit perhaps on a different client spec or by a different user.) This means that moving the changes to a different branch is just as painful as is creating a branch retrospectively for shelved changes.

Why I Hate Perforce: 3. It's hard to find files that need adding

This is part of a series of articles explaining why I hate Perforce. Please see "Why I Hate Perforce: The Background" first.

When adding new files to a working tree it is of paramount importance that these files get checked into the revision control system at the correct point. The difficult part is finding the files that need adding - once that's been done adding them is easy.

Finding new files is made difficult because working trees usually contain a lot of other files that shouldn't be added to revision control: editor backup files, files generated during compilation, backup modified versions of files that are under revision control that you want to keep around as reminders, temporary files that haven't been cleaned up properly. It's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Other revision control systems solve this problem by allowing such files to be added to ignore lists. Usually there's a global ignore list for files that are almost always ignored such as object files and editor backup files. In addition there's a specific ignore list for each directory; this is useful for generated header files and patterns that would otherwise be too broad. CVS uses a file named .cvsignore and Git uses the similar .gitignore. Subversion uses a directory property named svn:ignore.

Perforce has no equivalent to this functionality. The Eclipse Perforce plugin seems to have invented the concept of a .p4ignore file out of necessity but I haven't tried it.

My currently suboptimal workaround for this is a script that runs find(1) and passes the results to p4 fstat to identify files that aren't under control then weeds out common files that should be ignored. I've got parts of an improved Ruby version of this script working but haven't yet polished it enough for release.

Now read Part Four.

Why I Hate Perforce: 2. Working copy state is stored on the server

This is part of a series of articles explaining why I hate Perforce. Please see "Why I Hate Perforce: 1. The Background" first.

A working copy (client in Perforce terminology or check-out in CVS terminology) contains absolutely nothing but the files that you instructed Perforce to place there from the depot (using your client specification) and files that you caused to be placed there yourself (e.g. object files, new source files, .p4config files etc.) Perforce itself keeps no state information in your working tree (although you may choose to with .p4config files).

From some points of view this can seem like quite a good idea. Tools such as find(1) and grep(1) can't accidentally look at such data. There's no extra directories (hidden or otherwise) to confuse the uninitiated. But this information must be stored somewhere and Perforce chooses to keep it all on the server. This has a number of consequences.

The most obvious implication of keeping all the state information on the server is that if the server is down or inaccessible then you cannot perform any operations that need that state. Perforce normally marks all files as read-only until an explicit request is made to edit them. Doing this requires a connection to the server. If such a connection is unavailable then it is necessary to resort to chmod(1) or attrib to make the file writable and then remembering to run p4 diff -se when the server is available again in order to correctly mark the files as editable. Editor plug-ins that provide version information automatically for version controlled files may block for a while until they discover that the server is unavailable.

Another annoyance with keeping the state information outside the working copy is that the working copy cannot easily be moved or copied elsewhere. This might be useful due to disk space constraints, wanting to shelve some work in progress or wanting to divide current work in two. I'll come back to this topic in a later article.

The alternative is to keep the state information locally. CVS keeps all working copy state in the working copy itself. Subversion keeps that along with pristine copies of source files which allows it to only send changes when submitting files and allows diff operations without contacting the server. This means that it is possible to copy and move around CVS and Subversion working copies and the state is copied or moved at the same time. SVK keeps information in a local per-user location but does allow moves as long as you keep it informed. Distributed version control systems keep so much information that the server is only required when new changes are to be pulled from it or pushed to it.

Now read Part Three.

Why I Hate Perforce: 1. The Background

I'm about to post a few articles explaining why Perforce and I just don't get on in many ways. But before I do I feel it is important that I make the background for these criticisms clear.

I've been using revision control systems for well over ten years. Initially I had brief outings with Microsoft Delta and then a longer and more painful experience with Microsoft SourceSafe on Windows even when sharing code among only three developers. Perforce is definitely a big improvement over these!

Once I learnt about CVS I started using that. Initially just for me on UNIX and Linux but later on shared projects that needed to compile on Windows too. I was forced to learn about tagging, vendor branches (and later why they suck in CVS) and merging. CVS wasn't perfect but it did work. I understood how it worked fundamentally, even to the point of fiddling around by hand in the repository when it became absolutely necessary.

I keenly watched the development of Subversion and periodically tried to import our CVS repository into it. I recommended to others starting new projects that they should choose Subversion rather than CVS.

I started a new job where everything was kept in a Perforce depot. I was used to the CVS workflow and initially felt a little out of water. It gradually dawned on me that many issues I had with Perforce were impeding or adding risk to my work. In the end I decided that some of these issues were fundamental in the Perforce design.

Of course Perforce has some very good features. It is certainly better than CVS in many ways. Perhaps I'll write articles about these too in the interest of fairness.

Because I come from the world of CVS it is quite likely that I'll accidentally use CVS terminology rather than Perforce terminology in these articles but I'll try not to!

Of course I may have missed features in Perforce or alternative techniques that invalidate some of points. If I have then please let me know via the comments.

Some of the scripts I use to work around the shortcomings I see in Perforce are available via my web page.

I should probably also note that I've also played with various other systems such as Bitkeeper, Clearcase, Arch, Bazaar, Darcs, Mercurial, SVK and Git. Of these the one I've tried to use most is Git and I would like to use it more given the chance.

Now read Part Two.